The Home Secretary insists it was said for 'dramatic effect'
James Cleverly attempted to defend his aide over his comments describing the Tories Rwanda scheme as “crap” in a leaked recording.
Former Tory MP James Sunderland is heard telling a private event of the Young Conservatives group in April, “the policy is crap, OK? It’s crap.”
The Home Secretary was grilled by Sky News broadcaster Trevor Phillips on Sunday, leading to an awkward clash over the comments, as Cleverly insisted they had been made for “dramatic effect.”
During the interview, Cleverly said: “I was surprised because I know James has been very supportive.. He’s putting forward a counter intuitive statement to grab the attention of the audience.”
To which Trevor Phillips quipped back: “Yes, it’s pretty counterintuitive to say your government’s flagship policy is crap.”
Cleverly then attempted to defend the statement, claiming that his aide actually meant something different.
“If you listen to what he went on to say, he was saying that the impact, the effect is what matters. And he went on to say that the deterrent effect we’ve seen working in Australia,” said Cleverly.
He continued: “He did it clearly for dramatic effect.. but he is, and it’s clear in the recording, completely supportive of the deterrent effect the Rwanda policy has.”
Phillips skewed Cleverly in his response: “Are you sure? Because there is another way of interpreting exactly what you just said, which is that his first reaction was his real reaction and then what he went on to explain is how the government justifies it, which is a whole different story.”
Cleverly was then reminded of when it was alleged he had described the Rwanda policy as “batshit”. Cleverly denied saying this.
He told Phillips: “Where I have expressed frustration about the policy is at times I felt there was a focus on that to the exclusion of anything else.”
In the leaked recording received by the BBC, Cleverly’s parliamentary undersecretary is heard saying: “What I would say to you is that – nobody has got their cameras on, their phones – the policy is crap, OK? It’s crap.”
He goes on: “But it’s not about the policy. It’s about the effect of the policy. It’s the second- or third-order effects.
“In Australia, for example, a similar policy had a devastating effect. There is no doubt at all that when those first flights take off that it will send such a shockwave across the Channel that the gangs will stop.”
(Image credit: Sky News / screenshot YouTube)
Hannah Davenport is news reporter at Left Foot Forward
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