Muslim communities must stand tall and engage with the government

The paranoia within sections of Britain's Muslim communities is toxic to integration

 

I understand that there is a genuine fear within Muslim communities around the counter-terrorism agenda. I also understand that the fear is based on mistakes that have taken place within the counter-terrorism agenda and that we need a genuine debate about this.

However there are sections of Britain’s Muslim communities that believe the world revolves around bizarre conspiracies. For them, seeing the wood from the chaff is increasingly difficult.

For example, a legitimate attempt by Faith Matters to engage with young people across the country – to see what impacts far-right and Al Qaeda or ISIS influenced rhetoric has on them online – has been portrayed by such groups as a ‘spying exercise’.

In reality it is an initiative to develop a report which can give young people at a grass roots level the opportunity to have their voices heard at a policy level.

It does not matter that the initiative will be resourced and organised independently by Faith Matters with no funding from the government; according to these conspiracy purveyors it is, as mentioned, a ‘spying exercise’.

This seems to be the over-riding narrative for them: that Muslim communities are hard done by and that progressive organisations that want to work with government – as critical friends – are the problem.

Such paranoia feeds a dangerous victim narrative. It also affects a sense of identity, integration and dare I say it, injects a desire in some Muslims to leave the UK.

About four months ago I was quoted in this article, leading to a flurry of bullying, abusive and slanderous comments from sections of Muslim communities which had previously praised the decade of work we at Faith Matters have done on cohesion, integration and supporting faith communities.

Some of these critics had used and quoted material from TELL MAMA, a national project I founded to support victims of anti-Muslim hate. This project which was supported for two years by central government (between 2012- 2013) provided material, data and information that many of these individuals, groups and activists used to shore up the fact that anti-Muslim hate and bigotry exists.

However after the Telegraph article their conspiratorial mind-set kicked in. This led to a campaign of smears, intimidation and hate directed at TELL MAMA – and directed at me in person.

These are the sorts of individuals who today attempt to hold sway and play to a victim narrative within Muslim communities. I regard such people as being part of the problem we have to deal with. These are the ‘Del Boys’ who trot out half-truths and peddle condiments that sicken and weaken Muslim communities through disengagement and introversion.

Instead of supporting the only project nationally that has produced tangible evidence of anti-Muslim hatred, these ‘Del-Boys’ of the Muslim world are only interested in the one occasion when we were invited to speak on a TELL MAMA report at the Quilliam Foundation – which we did, given that we will speak at any platform, (apart from extremist groups and those who have used prejudiced terms against whole communities).

This example sums up what they do. They are the Pied Pipers whistling a tune leading to further misunderstanding, greater barriers and a political cliff where disengagement becomes the norm.

This is certainly not the Britain I want, nor a future I want to see for Muslim communities and co-religionists. My view is one of confident Muslim communities and citizens, equals who do not feel victimised but who are willing to be critical when required and constructive for the greater good.

The Quilliam Foundation is the bogey man used by these groups to smear anyone who does not dance to their tune (if only the Quilliam Foundation were that connected and powerful). Some of those pushing this line are characters who developed ‘media personalities’ through Twitter and who, thankfully, have been outed as the manipulative ego-centric people they are. Today they hide in the shadows posting items anonymously on Islamist blogs.

The time has come to take a stand against such groups. This does not mean there have been no problems in how counter-terrorism work has been developed and implemented at community level. There have; but what is the alternative proposed by the government’s critics? They simply have none.

Lastly, this does not mean practitioners like me have not made mistakes in our partnership choices on occasion. We are human and, sadly, mistakes do take place and we have to be honest and open about these when they take place since we have placed ourselves into the public sphere.

But the future is not all doom and gloom. It is – and should be – one where Muslim communities stand tall and engage with government.

Fiyaz Mughal is the director of Faith Matters and the founder of Tell Mama, a project which records and measures anti-Muslim incidents

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37 Responses to “Muslim communities must stand tall and engage with the government”

  1. damon

    Very good post from Fiyaz Mughal. I fear it’s too late to make real progress though. In the short term anyway. Islamism is more attractive than the kind of views made here.
    I was listening to one Muslim mother on the radio recently who was trying to make sure her children did not fall for the radical Islamist message, and she mentioned that her daughter will of course have been swayed towards it as a teenager, and that it was her job to counter that and tell her why that was wrong. So she was admitting that a young Muslim in Britain could have a default setting to be attracted to an Islamist outlook, and it was parents and the wider community who had to then make sure it was curtailed.
    I think ”we” need to go back to basics somewhat and remind people that what makes this country good is that it isn’t a Muslim country and many or most Muslims who came here wanted to make a different kind of life. To live amongst the secular English people.
    Even this morning I have seen Somali mothers in London walking along with small daughters who wear hijabs. Someone ought to tell people from that community that we don’t see young girls as sexual beings so there’s no need to put them in hijabs at the age of six. It kind of annoys me to see it, as those people came here to escape Somalia.
    The same goes for too much after school madrassa classes. I think we should say they shouldn’t indoctrinate too much and the children shouldn’t go too much. One hour a week should be enough.

  2. stevep

    Britain is broadly welcoming to religious diversity. However, religious leaders of all faiths should realise that is why Britain is special and not try to proclaim their faith above others. they should all try to learn from one another, for there are kernels of truth common to all.
    Britain is a secular country, with rights we all enjoy, regardless of religion. Those rights should take precedence to religious proclamations and beliefs. If religious leaders or communities see no value in our rights, then the rule of British law must apply to preserve them.
    Anything else surely negates the reason for living in The UK in the first place.

  3. Mark

    I shall tell you how I see it from one perspective. We are told that the “vast majority” of the Muslim population do not support extremism. Fine. At that point, if the Government make it clear they are targetting extremists, then all should be comfortable about that. However, some groups and individuals pop up to essentially say that the “vast majority” will be demonised by this. It makes no sense.

    I hate the terms “moderate or extreme” which seems to me to be a media made-up term, but all sorts seem to run with it. What does a “moderate” even mean? Maybe TELLMAMA or the associate organisation should push the point that a broader society exists. Those who are Muslims and only do the mosque for weddings and funerals (much like a huge number of “Christians”). Those who don’t bother with the clothes/modesty thing, those who are secular/liberal about all of this, through to the orthodox.

    And I read a Facebook post from a Muslim activist who is part of PREVENT, who complained how people were undermining it. One of the comments to the Facebook post said, “We have an Islamophobic Home Secretary.”
    Well ok, all I’ve heard from Teresa May is that extremism is to be tackled, and then her being at pains to tell the TV viewing public that “Islam is a religion of peace.”

    What on earth is in the mind of the person who called her an Islamophobe, based on that? Unless they have been listening to the IHRC.

    I’m also fed up with imams telling us that no radicalisation is happening in mosques, as if that imam knows about all (1500?) mosques and has visited, unannounced on a frequent basis, which would be impossible.
    Surely a more reasonable statement would be that “radicalisation *might* be happening in *some* mosques.” But apparently, that cannot be said.

    The point is that I see groups and individuals on my TV who are totally against sorting this problem out, whatever they may say, and it has been going on for years, but now with a growing confidence.

  4. KarlGRice

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  5. itbeso

    “Instead of supporting the only project nationally that has produced tangible evidence of anti-Muslim hatred”
    this organisation lost funding because it was shown to be part of the problem. Old Fiyaz is desperate to remain in play.

  6. swat

    Its not just paranoia but actually a fact; and the Muslim Community have brought it all on themselves, through their inability to adapt. The rest of the World is losing its patience with them..

  7. damon

    I think I agree with most of that.

  8. paulcanning

    Sing out Louise!

  9. lancastrian1

    “I’m also fed up with imams telling us that no radicalisation is happening in mosques, as if that imam knows about all (1500?) mosques and has visited, unannounced on a frequent basis, which would be impossible.Surely a more reasonable statement would be that “radicalisation *might* be happening in *some* mosques.” But apparently, that cannot be said.”

    When Tunisia has closed 80 mosques and weapons caches were found in 40 mosques, then Egypt has placed restrictions on mosques to prevent MB working in them the idea that NO mosque is promoting radicalisation beggars belief.
    http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2015/07/07/weapons-caches-found-in-forty-tunisian-mosques/

    https://www.zawya.com/story/Egypt_sets_curbs_on_mosque_seclusion-GN_10072015_110738/

    Then we come to the definition of radicalisation. Most non-Muslims would consider teaching and promoting many parts of Sharia law as radicalisation:

    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/platform/2010/11/stopping-the-spread-of-sharia-is-central-to-countering-radicalisation-part-1.html
    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/platform/2010/11/sharia-is-the-touchstone-for-recognising-and-combatting-radical-islam-part-2.html
    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/platform/2010/11/the-new-government-needs-to-take-urgent-steps-to-counter-sharia-based-radicalisation-part-3.html

    Especially considering this ruling from the ECHR:

    ECHR: Noting that the Welfare Party had pledged to set up a regime based on sharia law, the Court found that sharia was incompatible with the fundamental principles of democracy as set forth in the Convention. It considered that “sharia, which faithfully reflects the dogmas and divine rules laid down by religion, is stable and invariable. Principles such as pluralism in the political sphere or the constant evolution of public freedoms have no place in it”. According to the Court, it was difficult to declare one’s respect for democracy and human rights while at the same time supporting a regime based on sharia, which clearly diverged from Convention values, particularly with regard to its criminal law and criminal procedure, its rules on the legal status of women and the way it intervened in all spheres of private and public life in accordance with religious precepts.

    One of our biggest problems is defining what constitutes radicalisation because in truth doing that means delving into Islamic doctrines.

  10. lancastrian1

    The problem really is that Islam is a mixture of religion, political, social and legal doctrines to control the whole of society. As such plurality is an alien concept – see this from the ECHR

    //leftfootforward.org/2015/07/paranoia-is-toxic-to-integration/#comment-2135558977

  11. StephenB

    Exactly. TELLMAMA is another scam operation, a wannabe CST (that spawned it). It didn’t take long for the government to see through it. Its main purpose is to make the CST look like it is interested in all sections the British population, and not just The State of Israel. Doomed to failure.

  12. stephenb

    I was hoping that this was going to take me to how I could set up a scam ” anti racits /anti extremist ” organisation and make loadsa dosh.#markgardnermaajid nawaz.

  13. Patrick Nelson

    “Even this morning I have seen Somali mothers in London walking along
    with small daughters who wear hijabs. Someone ought to tell people from
    that community that we don’t see young girls as sexual beings so
    there’s no need to put them in hijabs at the age of six. It kind of
    annoys me to see it, as those people came here to escape Somalia.”

    Is it any of your business how people dress their children? Instead of being concerned about children wearing a piece of cloth on their heads your concerns would be better placed if you worried about this issue http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/mother-tongue/4575062/Young-girls-sexualised-by-clothing-and-toy-manufacturers.html

    “The
    same goes for too much after school madrassa classes. I think we should
    say they shouldn’t indoctrinate too much and the children shouldn’t go
    too much. One hour a week should be enough.”

    Is that any of your business? Furthermore British Madrassas are only places of indoctrination in the imaginations of the ill informed.

  14. Patrick Nelson

    You could say the same thing about Orthodox Judaism and you would be wrong with that too.

  15. Patrick Nelson

    “I’m also fed up with imams telling us that no radicalisation is happening in mosques,”

    I have been in many British Mosques and in the earlier part of the last decade I saw a fair number of people trying to radicalize others too (they had to stand outside as they were not welcome to spread their views within), but I have never seen an actual Mosque community that was happy with the radicals nor have I been in a Mosque that preached radicalism. On the contrary I have seen Mosques and their congregants be actively hostile against groups like Hizb ut Tehrir and Al Muhajiroun (now called Saviour Sect).

    Mosques are in the main very quiet places (conservative with a small c) and the only politics you hear inside them are occasional voices encouraging people to vote. In fact the most political thing I have ever heard in Mosques was the occasional Imam encouraging people to vote Labour and after some recent scandals I doubt that we will hear that in future.

  16. Ringstone

    I don’t seem to recall Orthodox Jews blowing people up or preaching the overthrow of the Common Law, which you seem so fond of.

    There are issues, some cultural and some religious but all well rehearsed, within parts of the South Asian/Middle Eastern community which are not acceptable in a Western pluralist society; either the wider community addresses them or pressure will build for someone to sort it out for them. The ball is firmly in their court.

  17. lancastrian1

    So you think the ECHR got it wrong on Sharia Law? The fact is that Islam/Sharia is designed to control just about all aspects of society and as such is very dangerous as these examples from established Islamic states show. The growth of this particular political ideology is not to be encouraged in the UK:

    Sudan: 2nd woman sentenced to death by stoning
    http://allafrica.com/stories/201207250337.html

    Sudan: Amputations carried out by Govt
    http://www.emirates247.com/news/region/sudan-man-s-foot-hand-amputated-by-court-order-2013-02-28-1.496915
    http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2013/03/12/Official-Sudan-will-continue-amputations/UPI-83841363096550/

    Pregnant woman sentenced to hang for apostasy
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/sudan/10833226/Pregnant-woman-faces-death-in-Sudan-for-apostasy.html

    Iran hanging a schoolgirl for ‘immoral behaviour’
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/5217424.stm

    Iran regime amputates hands of two prisoners
    http://www.ncr-iran.org/en/news/human-rights/18613-iran-regime-amputates-hands-of-two-prisoners

    Iran: Unveil machine to amputate fingers of thieves
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/9831727/Iran-unveils-finger-amputating-machine-for-use-on-thieves.html

    Nigeria: Sharia Court Sentences Nine to Death for Blasphemy
    http://www.thisdaylive.com/articles/sharia-court-sentences-nine-to-death-for-blasphemy/213149/

    Malaysia Shariah Law: Islamist Party Passes Bill To Implement Harsh Islamic Criminal Punishments
    http://www.ibtimes.com/malaysia-shariah-law-islamist-party-passes-bill-implement-harsh-islamic-criminal-1852948

    Brunei adopts sharia – international outcry
    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/01/world/asia/brunei-sharia-law/

  18. lancastrian1

    Your reply doesn’t address the issue that teaching sharia law is radicalisation. That is at the very least the start of the path to jihad and since just about all jihadist groups are fighting to impose sharia law ( as the basis for Islamic rule) it makes sense that we oppose sharia law. In fact I believe it ought to be banned in the UK.

  19. lancastrian1

    It is also noticeable how many responders on this subject invoke Judaism. That isn’t a political ideology that presents a direct and potent threat to our way of life and values, sharia law is just such a threat.

  20. Patrick Nelson

    Shariah is a very broad term, very little of what it means has anything to do with politics but is rather related to personal piety.

    The Shariah that is taught in the Madrassas in England covers such matters as how to pray, fast, pay zakaat, what foods are lawful or not according to Islamic Divine Law etc.

    Nearly all the education in Madrassas is the memorization of the Quran in Arabic and in most cases this is without understanding of the meanings as very few British Muslim youths can actually comprehend classical Arabic, so in your terms it is equivalent to memorizing a very long song that you do not know the specific meanings of.

    Badder Mienhof and dozens of Socialist terrorist groups used to murder people with the belief that they were helping to establish socialism, do you support the banning of socialism?

    People commit acts of terrorism in the name of Democracy will you ban democracy because of it?

  21. damon

    ”Is it any of your business how people dress their children?”

    Well it could be yes. I’m told that a hijab is worn to deflect attention away from a female’s sexuality.
    That without it and seeing women’s hair, men tend to feel lustful.
    That’s pretty stupid for a start in my opinion, but people insist on it.
    We let Somalians into our country because their own was totally disfunctional.
    They were fleeing for their lives we were told.
    Fair enough. But is it OK to hope that they might leave most of their country’s culture behind and make new lives in Britain that are looking forward and much more secular than the one that imploded into clan warfare?

    Do Brits have a right to like or not like the way society changes? Not liking that it becomes more religious and divided along cultural lines, so you can end up with a house of bable effect?

    As for being concerned about what was in that link. I don’t think I’ve ever seen any of these so called sexy clothes for young children. Because one doest think of a child in little shorts and tops as anyway sexual in the first place. It would be awful if people from other cultures were tut-tutting at the way we let children be children and free from all that nonsense about covering up and being modest.
    And its terrible if parents won’t let their children do PE and sports at school because they can’t stop thinking of a sexual aspect.

    As for madrassas, what they do is teach children the Koran, almost by rote. As a secular person I don’t like that. I’ve been in several Muslim countries and the culture is pretty messed up.
    One hour a week would be fine. More than that gets too intrusive and turns people into unthinking headbangers. Just look at Afghanistan and Pakistan for example.

  22. lancastrian1

    Sharia is a totalitarian political system with a some religious bits tacked on the side as that ECHR judgement makes clear, a position that is backed by plenty of evidence. As it happens, I’ve just being reading this on the fate of one man who tried to oppose sharia in Sudan and was hanged for his troubles:

    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2006/09/11/the-moderate-martyr

    As for not what is taught in madrassa in this country, that contradicts what I have heard from ex-muslims and what things like the BBC Panorama programme showed in “British Schools, Islamic Rules” which taught amongst other things that non-muslims should step out of the way of muslims and disgusting things like “List the reprehensible qualities of the Jews”.

    I accept that won’t be all madrassa but one is far too many for that final echo of Der Sturmer. Also from your comments, I suspect you are a muslim so the sect is important here. Ahmadiyya’s are relatively peaceful but only circa 1% of muslims worldwide. Shia and sunni make up the remainder and both use sharia as a form of political control via guardian councils in Iran and other countries.

    Finally, any ideology (and sharia is definitely a political ideology) that permits death fro apostasy, amputation of limbs and other such barbarous acts needs to be opposed and banned. Your facile attempt to tie terrorism and democracy together is frankly, laughable.

  23. Patrick Nelson

    As well as having that meaning it is also a fashion item, a cultural symbol and when cold something that keeps the head warm or when something that keeps the sun off the head. You are assuming you know peoples motivations, yet without even knowing them.

    As for messed up Muslim sh**holes, Afghanistan was a rather nice hippy destination back in the seventies before it became a living nightmare through first brutal Communism, then long and bloody revolution, then under (mostly criminal) warlords, then under Islamists then under warlords again. Any country would be pretty messed up after all that.

    As for Pakistan, well it is a country dominated by a ultra rich westernized elite who have been manipulating religion in a divide and rule policy for half a century. Meanwhile south Asian Islam is still messed up firstly by the divide and rule policy used by the British Raj which encouraged the development of a harsh sectarian approach to religion, whilst the Wahhabi influence over many years also introduced elements that were totally different from the predominantly laid back spiritual Sufi Islam that was manly dominant earlier.

    There are indeed some Muslim sh**holes but at the same time there are great places to live in the Muslim world like Malaysia, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Oman, Indonesia, Jordan Morocco, the Maldives etc. Your argument is a bit like if I bring up North Korea as an example of a secular atheist state.

  24. damon

    I don’t agree on the hijab. Maybe men should wear them too.
    I have sometimes had the bizarre thought of what the world would look like if everyone wore one. Men and women. The niqab too. That would be totally mental. You wouldn’t be able to recognise anyone. I know it’s cultural as well as to stop lustful looks when people put children in hijabs – but they’re not in them countries anymore and I would just prefer it if they knocked that silly practice on the head. Even Yasmin Alibhai-Brown thinks it’s an oppressive piece of material. In many Muslim countries it’s practically obligatory for girls and women to wear it.
    Afghanistan was like you say I believe, but the world has moved on and the Wahabis and Salafists have superseded the Sufis by the look of it.
    We should discourage practice of religion as much as possible.
    Some of it is pretty benign, but fundamentalism is rife now.

    Of the Muslim countries you named, I’ve been in a few of them.
    Only Malaysia actually charmed me. I was there three months a few years ago so saw a lot of the peninsula. Very nice people.
    Indonesia also, but it has some pretty messed up ideas too.
    Jordan is OK – but not a place where as a European foreigner, your not treated as anything other than a total alien. Even when people are being friendly.
    Morocco is hard. After six weeks travelling about there, I breathed a huge sigh of relief as I left the country at the border crossing into one of those Spanish enclaves.
    As for Dubai, I spent a week there and that place sucks so much. It’s horrible.
    Practically a slave state. I don’t think I met one Emirati. They are so rich they are aloof form cheapo backpackers like I was. And the majority of the people who live there are just exploited labour.

    Generally Muslim societies are messed up. I was in Egypt last year and its hard to respect people in a country where rates of FGM are so high. But it would have been a totally taboo subject to ever ask and Egyptian about.
    If large numbers of these kinds of people want to come to the UK, I think we really have to try to encourage them to become more secular and less into their old culture.

    It’s just a view.

  25. Mike Stallard

    9/11 – 7/7 – the Madrid bombings – the recent Ramadan seaside shootings – the appalling publicity offered by ISIS when they behead innocent people…
    There is no excuse for this.
    The importance, of course, is that now Imperialism has collapsed and the West is no longer able to defend itself, barbarism comes back, first in Africa now in the Muslim world.
    I personally, being a Catholic, would like to see a Christian revival. The last time that happened (Wesley brothers) we were able to produce lots of things and abolish slavery too.
    But we mustn’t upset the atheists and the secularists and the humanists and the Muslims must we?

  26. BetrayedRosse

    So sharia is a personal thing? what nonsense.

  27. BetrayedRosse

    Only one of the ‘religions’ you mention kill people in order to further their cause. Only one loves life death more than you love life. 1.2bn people walking around the planet in a daze, serving a fictional character and drifiting towards a paradise afterlife is a scary concept, almost ludicrous, but also very VERY real.

  28. Patrick Nelson

    “Only one of the ‘religions’ you mention kill people in order to further
    their cause.”

    Does it? You obviously haven’t read the Old Testament if you believe what you just said.

    Furthermore Christians gets top marks when it comes to violent attacks upon people of other religions (and if you want a list of examples I will happily give you one),

    and despite their gentle image Buddhists have been involved in many brutal wars against non-Buddhists, whilst Hindus have been pretty warlike too as have carious types of Pagans…

    However this is nothing to do with religion this is something to do with people, as the most atheistic societies to date (USSR, North Korea, Cambodia etc) have bee violent to a degree only matched by the likes of Vlad the Impaler (a member of the Crusading Order of the Dragon) or the Shamanistic Mongols beforehand.

    The problem is not religion, not Islam nor philosophies, the problem is that political power is often achieved and held by psychopaths and sociopaths.

    “Only one loves life death more than you love life.”

    I think that if you ask most Muslims alive today whether they prefer death than life you will find just how deluded you are.

  29. Patrick Nelson

    They invoke Judaism because in its traditional form it is the religion most similar to Islam.

    As for Sharia being a threat to our way of life and values, yes we hear this said regularly,

    …however when it comes to demonstrating the actual mechanism of how Shariah is actually going to suddenly supplant “British values” people have to end up resorting to far fetched fantasies.

  30. Patrick Nelson

    “I don’t seem to recall Orthodox Jews blowing people up or preaching the overthrow of the Common Law, which you seem so fond of”

    So who preaches to overthrow common law in this country?

    “There are issues, some cultural and some religious but all well
    rehearsed, within parts of the South Asian/Middle Eastern community which are not acceptable in a Western pluralist society”

    So are you talking about people breaking the law or going about their lives obeying the law?

    If they are breaking the law it is a matter for the police.

    Or are you talking about people who are living as a law abiding citizen and you find their living as Muslims unacceptable?

    If this is the case then then it certainly isn’t a liberal Western pluralist society that you are promoting, but rather its intolerant antithesis – an attitude quite alien to this country.

  31. Patrick Nelson

    And I would like to know who preaches to overthrow common law in this country? This is certainly nothing connected to the mainstream Muslims who just want to live their lives without being targets of hatred.

  32. Patrick Nelson

    “There are issues, some cultural and some religious but all well
    rehearsed, within parts of the South Asian/Middle Eastern community which are not acceptable in a Western pluralist society”

    So are you talking about people breaking the law or going about their lives obeying the law?

    If they are breaking the law it is a matter for the police.

    Or are you talking about people who are living as a law abiding citizen and you find their living as Muslims unacceptable?

    If this is the case then then it certainly isn’t a liberal “Western
    pluralist society” that you are promoting, but rather its intolerant
    antithesis – an attitude quite alien to this country.

  33. Patrick Nelson

    Yes over 99% of what is Shariah is simply how a Muslim lives their life on a personal level.

    Shariah simply implies the “broad path to follow” and is an exact parallel of “Halakha” (the way to go) in Judaism (interestingly a Muslim study group is called a “Halqa”)

    The part that “gets some people’s goat” are primarily the Hudud laws, learn your subject if you want to criticize something or you will look like an ignoramus.

  34. lancastrian1

    How is sharia going to supplant “British values”? Firstly it won’t be sudden rather a gradual creep and it is already happenng in halal meat being forced on us all, pork and the like disappearing from menus. Sharia tribunals and certain communities ‘policing themselves.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10581189/Alternative-policing-in-some-minority-communities.html

    MuslimPatrol on streets of London:

    http://conservativetribune.com/muslim-shariah-law-patrol/

    http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/02/05/new-video-muslim-sharia-patrol-gets-worse-in-london-we-are-in-east-west-north-south-london-we-are-here-to-bring-sharia-police-can-go-to-hell/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcsG-u2GtZE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKOWPFa4Yb4

    I could go on but you get the picture. I assume I was right about you being a Muslims then?

  35. Patrick Nelson

    Muslims is plural, you can’t be a Muslims. Relatively Muslims in the UK are a tiny group and pork is available across the country stop being hysterical,

    The Shariah patrol story
    just shows that a handful of ignorant young people think they live in
    Afghanistan and brutal beatings happen all the time, thugs come from all communities, not just from the Muslim community. Are you seriously implying that these thugs represent British Muslims as a whole?

    So what you have shown us are some new stories, but you haven’t shown a single thing apart from some silly assertions that Britain is in anyway, at any time likely to be dominated by “Shariah Law”.

    The leader of the Muslim street patrol is a dodgy ignoramus, commonly considered an agent provocateur by Muslims – a man who knows nothing of Islam and can’t even speak Arabic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDHSx0AWND8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSAh7c8nJkc

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSAh7c8nJkc

  36. lancastrian1

    Can’t understand Arabic? So another you can’t understand islam if you don’t understand Arabic.

    You are wrong and I am going to terminate this conversation because it is simply a dead-end. You are either practicing taqiyya or you do not understand the current shifts in society that are taking place. My money is on the former.#Goodbye.

  37. Patrick Nelson

    You certainly can’t claim to be a scholar of the religion as he does. I suggest you really find out what Taqiyya means because the professional Islamophobes have been spreading rather a lot of Barnies about that one.

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