Comments on: Why Labour must become the party of ‘Remain and Reform’ https://leftfootforward.org/2019/07/why-labour-must-become-the-party-of-remain-and-reform/ Left Foot Forward is the home for UK progressives. We provide evidence-based analysis on British politics, news and policy. Wed, 07 Aug 2019 09:52:42 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.5 By: Gary https://leftfootforward.org/2019/07/why-labour-must-become-the-party-of-remain-and-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-974278 Wed, 07 Aug 2019 09:52:42 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=137744#comment-974278 Regardless of how you or I may feel about Brexit we have already had the result and already had a Commons vote in which the Labour Party voted to agree to implement the result.

If Labour were to gain power before we leave the EU then obviously it can put forward different forms of deals to the public and allow them to choose. However, were Labour to reverse it’s stance and revoke Article 50 or even put Remain on a ballot it would be overturning the result of a democratic vote and reneging on it’s agreement to implement the will of the public.

Despite media reports the country is not ‘divided’ by this at all. The 99% are plainly sick of hearing about Brexit. Those who voted Remain have, in the majority, accepted that this was a democratic vote and expect the government of the day to implement it. There is little support for running another referendum – even among Remain voters. What confidence could anyone ever have in politics again if they overturn results they don’t like?

In the Irish Independence Referendum and the Scottish Devolution Referendum (1979) governments DID act in an anti-democratic way. On both occasions they got round this by having legislation in place beforehand to ‘rig’ the result. Overturning Brexit would be the first time anything so boldly undemocratic had been done, and to the UK as a whole this time.

It wouldn’t just undermine politics, it would kill Labour. Many lifelong Labour voters (perhaps not members) voted Leave, how could they countenance voting for Labour if the party was promising to overturn a democratic result on such an important and firmly held belief?

The party should stay the course on it’s current policy. I know it’s not snappy and requires explaining but it is coherent, sensible and above all respectful of democracy. To overturn this would simply be undemocratic.

I’m making no argument that Brexit is a good thing, it isn’t. But neither is rigging votes or overturning them either. This would be a massive backward step for our country’s political landscape…

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By: jon rimmington https://leftfootforward.org/2019/07/why-labour-must-become-the-party-of-remain-and-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-973741 Thu, 01 Aug 2019 13:09:35 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=137744#comment-973741 Interesting that such a calmly sensible – and socialist – post should invite such vitriol from the clearly rattled right and the floundering old guard of labour voters who should by now know better. The general dtrift of the post is quite correct…. I can’t see that there is any viable altenative, and I’m an old LP member and ardent trade unionist.

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By: Cole https://leftfootforward.org/2019/07/why-labour-must-become-the-party-of-remain-and-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-973723 Thu, 01 Aug 2019 09:21:00 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=137744#comment-973723 So many right wingers posting here – plus some pretending to be left wing socialists. Haven’t they something better to do?

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By: wg https://leftfootforward.org/2019/07/why-labour-must-become-the-party-of-remain-and-reform/comment-page-2/#comment-973719 Thu, 01 Aug 2019 08:17:54 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=137744#comment-973719 This is total hogwash.

The EU hasn’t been in existence for 70 years – so could not have prevented wars for that time. The EU can not erase the work and sacrifice of NATO – no matter how they try.

The EU may have been of benefit to some in the UK, but not all.
The exploitation of the workers of poorer countries at the expense of flatlining wages and deteriorating working conditions in the UK has only been beneficial to a corporate elite.

Even if one were to believe the CO2 ‘climate’ nonsense, the EU’s handling of the so-described crisis has been abysmal and has resulted in more harm being done than good.

How has the EU helped inequality: it has exploited that inequality to the nth degree – with average EU youth unemployment now at 14%.

Which brings me on to another point: the EU has never struggled to control immigration from Africa, or anywhere else – it has actually encouraged it for its own corporate reasons. In the early noughties the EU made it known that it required 75million people to come in from outside the EU.

How has that benefitted the 40% of unemployed Greek youths?

As for reforming the democratic process – Mr Corbett has been at the centre of controlling and marginalising any political party that countered the EU’s federalist aims.
The Lisbon Treaty was an affront to the democratic process: so much so that when Ireland were having a referendum on the LT, Corbett and the usual culprits voted against recognising a NO vote.

The EU has been a regressive step for most who have become enmeshed by it; corporatist, anti-democratic, and committed to growing its own power and wealth.

Left Foot Forward may be bedazzled by the propaganda of the individuals above, but most of us aren’t.

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By: Tom Sacold https://leftfootforward.org/2019/07/why-labour-must-become-the-party-of-remain-and-reform/#comment-973715 Thu, 01 Aug 2019 07:21:33 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=137744#comment-973715 What a load of Blairite, New Labour tosh.

A real socialist party would be campaigning to leave the neoliberal, capitalist club.

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By: steve https://leftfootforward.org/2019/07/why-labour-must-become-the-party-of-remain-and-reform/#comment-973667 Wed, 31 Jul 2019 17:05:55 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=137744#comment-973667 Labour MEPs have just voted to back the Right Wing Von Der Leyen for EU President.

This would never have happened if reform was a sincere ambition.

Unfortunately, the ‘remain and reform’ slogan only advertises the political bankruptcy of those who repeat it.

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By: Geoff https://leftfootforward.org/2019/07/why-labour-must-become-the-party-of-remain-and-reform/#comment-973665 Wed, 31 Jul 2019 16:50:01 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=137744#comment-973665 I will never vote for the conservatives. I will never again vote the liberal democrats after 2010. Should the labour party support remain, I will never vote labour again.

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By: nshgp https://leftfootforward.org/2019/07/why-labour-must-become-the-party-of-remain-and-reform/#comment-973621 Wed, 31 Jul 2019 14:36:03 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=137744#comment-973621 Your nightmare is that Boris fails.

Then the Brexit party steps in. The ERG will leave the Tories to TBP.

That means Labour and Lib Dems split the metropolitain elite vote along with the Tories.

Those who want democracy, vote TBP.

Working class Labour votes TBP

Tory leave vote TBP

You get TBP winning 52%, and each of the remain parties split the 48% 3 ways. You’ll get 16% of the vote

52% beats 16% hands down in first past the post.

You are wiped out.

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By: nshgp https://leftfootforward.org/2019/07/why-labour-must-become-the-party-of-remain-and-reform/#comment-973620 Wed, 31 Jul 2019 14:33:01 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=137744#comment-973620 Too late. You need to start a campaign to join the UK.

Good luck with that one. You need to say why joining the Euro, a condition is a good idea.

Why flooding the labour market with low paid migrants is a good idea.

Why cutting services here to pay Eurocrats a good idea?

Why taking on billions of extra debt, the Eurocrat pensions is a good idea?

Why more tax and no services is a good idea?

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