Comments on: Opposing Brexit might be the best strategy for Labour in 2018. Here’s why https://leftfootforward.org/2017/12/opposing-brexit-might-be-the-best-strategy-for-labour-in-2018-heres-why/ Left Foot Forward is the home for UK progressives. We provide evidence-based analysis on British politics, news and policy. Wed, 03 Jan 2018 12:03:09 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.5 By: Alasdair Macdonald https://leftfootforward.org/2017/12/opposing-brexit-might-be-the-best-strategy-for-labour-in-2018-heres-why/comment-page-4/#comment-950465 Sun, 31 Dec 2017 12:54:15 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=125589#comment-950465 Robert and Cloud Cuckoo,

I agree with much of what you aspire to with regard to Labour. However, at present Labour is pretty fractured, despite the gains at the GE and has no coherent policy with regard to Brexit and is adopting a wait-and-see-how-the-wind-is-blowing approach in the hope that the Tories explode and Labour comes to Government by default. And, it is then that the fissures within Labour will burst open because Government actually means taking decisions.

I think that constitutional reform has to be a centrepiece of any reforming government, which wants to bring about irreversible paradigm shift which entails a genuine redistribution of power and wealth. (Personally, I think dissolution of the Union, with independence for Scotland, reunification of Ireland and for England and Wales to make up their own minds).

I agree with you, Cloud Cuckoo, in that there are strong grounds for optimism in the awakening of political consciousness and involvement by the young. Labour has always been conservative and patriotic – jingoistic English nationalist, and fervently royalist, often – and its electorate and supporters have always been susceptible to union-jack waving. It has, also, had many who saw through all of this and had genuinely socialist-redistributive-republican paradigm and, that was the Labour Party for which I voted often and invested hopes. However, in the 1990s I realised that ‘new’ Labour was largely Thatcherism rebranded and had as an aim, the destruction of ‘hope’, that socialism/republicanism entailed. Many of the young who are coming into politics do not have that historical colonialist baggage. They are better-educated, they have access to a wider range of information sources and have the in-built bullshit detection, they are creative, they see the depredations that Thatcherism is inflicting, they see Gordon Brown for the risible and ridiculous dinosaur that he is. However, the positions of power within many CLPs are held by such cliques of dinosaurs who have set up standing orders in such a way as to make change difficult.
Where I disagree, Robert is in your hope of Labour bringing about change in Europe. Its history of opposition and lukewarmness towards Europe and the obvious coolness of Mr Corbyn towards it, gives it low status amongst Europeans. The fiasco of the ineptitude and xenophobia of the current Government and media towards Europe certainly ensures that for generations, Europeans will be very wary of ‘THE BRITS’. Undoubtedly, Europe needs change as we saw in its treatment of Greece, but, the change will come from the countries on the mainland and a reunited Ireland.

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By: Terry https://leftfootforward.org/2017/12/opposing-brexit-might-be-the-best-strategy-for-labour-in-2018-heres-why/comment-page-4/#comment-950438 Sat, 30 Dec 2017 21:55:52 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=125589#comment-950438 Parliament said it would respect the Referendum result.

Labour declared it would respect the peoples decision.

Only political leaders lacking integrity wish to nullify democracy.

It won’t wash.

Apart from the fact that Labour’s leader won’t be fooled into a disastrous anti-Brexit stance, were Labour to volte-face, it would be royally crucified by the wrath of the many on an unheard of scale, and justifiably so, as an unprincipled, neoliberal kowtowing party for the few.

Labour marches forward with a real alternative to austerity and privatisation, making the best of Brexit, and must not be distracted by the toxicity of the LibDems, Tony Blair and others who fail to understand why forgotten communities voted as they did, and how these same communities will be let down if we don’t get on with winning the General Election, whenever it comes.

PS I voted remain.

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By: ID508216 https://leftfootforward.org/2017/12/opposing-brexit-might-be-the-best-strategy-for-labour-in-2018-heres-why/comment-page-3/#comment-950436 Sat, 30 Dec 2017 21:06:04 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=125589#comment-950436 why is my comment still awaiting moderation?

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By: Cloud Cuckoo https://leftfootforward.org/2017/12/opposing-brexit-might-be-the-best-strategy-for-labour-in-2018-heres-why/comment-page-3/#comment-950434 Sat, 30 Dec 2017 20:50:31 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=125589#comment-950434 Labour’s ‘core voter’ is no longer Alf Garnett – who voted Tory as well as being a classic UKIP flagwaving type. It was the Tony Booth character who was the Labour core voter then, and is now, though he would probably be the grandson.
So Labour would not be giving up on core voters. It would be gaining new ones, while not wasting energy trying to persuade the ones that have drifted far right as they have got older to stay.

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By: Robert https://leftfootforward.org/2017/12/opposing-brexit-might-be-the-best-strategy-for-labour-in-2018-heres-why/comment-page-3/#comment-950427 Sat, 30 Dec 2017 19:30:52 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=125589#comment-950427 This is the only way out of this mess. A Labour Party supporting remaining in the EU – after a second referendum – would sweep the board. Look at what even Heseltine is saying. Membership of the EU is not incompatible with sort of programme the present leadership of putting forward, which, for continental Europe, is quite moderate. A labour-led UK could transform the EU, if it could also undertake major constitutional reform at home. This is the opportunity of a lifetime to have a reforming labour government, let’s not throw it away.

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By: Chris https://leftfootforward.org/2017/12/opposing-brexit-might-be-the-best-strategy-for-labour-in-2018-heres-why/comment-page-3/#comment-950411 Sat, 30 Dec 2017 15:51:06 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=125589#comment-950411 Labour are second in my constituency to the Tories, I voted Lib Dem last time, but I would switch to Labour if they oppose Brexit, otherwise, the Lib Dems will still have my vote, even though they are in third place.

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By: Will https://leftfootforward.org/2017/12/opposing-brexit-might-be-the-best-strategy-for-labour-in-2018-heres-why/comment-page-3/#comment-950410 Sat, 30 Dec 2017 15:27:14 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=125589#comment-950410 The EU is no more inherently neo liberal than government from Westminster. The European Parliament must at some point supersede the Council of Ministers as the decision making body, then the EU will be more Democratic and accountable than the UK government.
Even now the EU offers more protection to workers,, the environment, health and safety than the UK government.

The real danger to Labour voters living standards will come if we lose frictionless access to the single market and suffer a Brexit recession with lost jobs, companies relocating and shortfalls in government revenue threatening Labours program.

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By: Howard Holt https://leftfootforward.org/2017/12/opposing-brexit-might-be-the-best-strategy-for-labour-in-2018-heres-why/comment-page-2/#comment-950403 Sat, 30 Dec 2017 13:29:25 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=125589#comment-950403 Having only ever voted Labour once, in 2017 in response to May’s “No Deal is better than a Bad Deal” I for one will only consider Labour again IF they stand up and be counted against Brexit, or they at very least seek to maintain the UK’s position in the EEA.
If there is no election prior to the transition period, and we do end up adrift of both the EU and EEA, then I expect Labour to make it’s policy to return to the EEA as a minimum, including FoM, or to return fully to the EU.
Otherwise a centre party will emerge and grab our votes and do just that when they see the chaos and destruction that a hard Brexit creates.
There’s no point in Labour just being the Tories in a different shirt, and Labour need the votes on middle-class Britain to get into power without the help of the SNP and Libdems – who will want a return to the EU anyway.

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By: Carol Fraser https://leftfootforward.org/2017/12/opposing-brexit-might-be-the-best-strategy-for-labour-in-2018-heres-why/comment-page-2/#comment-950393 Sat, 30 Dec 2017 08:58:26 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=125589#comment-950393 I am delighted to note that Labour grassroots is speaking out. Frances O’Grady is seriously concerned for workers’ rights and is correct. The article is spot-on. Ignore above Lordblagger who is running scared and Minford is a discredited economist.

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By: Jim Kerrigan https://leftfootforward.org/2017/12/opposing-brexit-might-be-the-best-strategy-for-labour-in-2018-heres-why/comment-page-2/#comment-950372 Fri, 29 Dec 2017 22:54:04 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=125589#comment-950372 Brexit is not and should not be the MAIN issue. The main objective should be to rid ourselves of neo-liberlaism. Brexit is a Tory diversion tactic as they are unable to do anything else. Yanis Varoufakis outlined in his book about the poor putting up with what they must, a series of reforms to the EU and EURO. But he didn’t convince on the reform process or timetable. If you want to remain in the EU you should accept that it needs to chamge. If you are a remainer you need to have a project to reform and some timetable. What is the reform process and how long
will that take? So far I haven’t seen that.

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