Comments on: Why 16 and 17-year-olds must be given a say in the EU referendum

By: Mike Stallard

Mike Stallard — Wed, 09 Dec 2015 14:58:00 +0000

Actually what is wrong – in theory at least – with not allowing people who do not contribute to take part in something for which they have not paid? I mean, season tickets for the Premier League have to be paid for – why not votes too?

By: Mike Stallard

Mike Stallard — Wed, 09 Dec 2015 14:55:00 +0000

Dear Owen,
Absolutely right. Of course the wee things should be able to vote. And why stop there? Why not Primary School children too? After all, “It would be wrong to tell today’s 11 and 12-year-olds that this decision about their future will be made without them.” They are quite ably to put a cross on a paper – or maybe, the ones who find writing hard could perhaps have a postal vote? And they will pay even more taxes during their lifetime than 16 year olds will.

By: politics hud

politics hud — Wed, 09 Dec 2015 01:39:00 +0000

Hi Owen, interesting piece but I think you might be guilty of simplifying a rather more complex situation by rehearsing some well-worn but contentious claims (as some of the respondents here have noted). I would be interested on your thoughts on this piece I published recently – http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexitvote/2015/12/03/learning-to-vote-dont-start-with-a-referendum/

By: wj

wj — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 19:07:00 +0000

Owen – you’re on the wrong side of the street:

http://www.caef.org.uk/d110front.html

By: CGR

CGR — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 17:56:00 +0000

Children must not be given the vote !!!

By: Owen Tudor

Owen Tudor — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 15:02:00 +0000

I know that people aren’t required to actually read articles on the web before commenting on them, but suggestions that the TUC wants 16 and 17 year olds to have the vote because we think they will vote a particular way sort of ignore the fact that (a) I specifically indicate in the article that how people vote is separate from whether they should have a vote and (b) I specifically indicate in the article that we have supported their right to vote since 1999. Unless you believe we thought we could predict how people could vote before they were even born, you might have to accept that we believe that 16 and 17 year olds should have the vote because it’s the right thing to do.

By: Neil Wilson

Neil Wilson — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 13:57:00 +0000

In reply to Mark Myword.

The liberal left are rather obsessed with the ‘tax as subscription’ argument. A very dangerous road to take when lifting poorer people out of tax completely should be the progressive agenda.

It is a particularly silly argument when you understand that Tax for Revenue is an Obsolete Concept. http://www.3spoken.co.uk/2015/07/taxes-for-revenue-are-obsolete-precis.html

By: Mark Myword

Mark Myword — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 13:53:00 +0000

Come on Mr Tudor, your case is weak. Payment of tax is not age dependent, child actors pay tax even if they are younger than 16. But this is a dangerous road to go down anyway. If payment of tax entitles you to vote, do those in poverty, who do not pay tax, lose their right to vote? Be careful where you go. There is an age at which the state declares you to be an adult – that is 18 at present. Everything I have seen of public policy in recent years is to emphasise that 16 and 17 years olds are still children.

By: andagain

andagain — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 12:43:00 +0000

If they are not old enough to be allowed to leave school, how can they be old enough to be allowed to vote?

By: wj

wj — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 12:38:00 +0000

Two things:

Yes, 16/17 year olds were given the vote in the Scottish referendum in the hope that they would push the Nats over the line to independence – it didn’t work. There is no reason to believe that the 16/17 year olds will follow the TUC line and keep the UK in the EU; what the writer is relying on is the student/Labour supporter contingent – he ignores the thousands who have been trodden under and excluded by the EU’s neoliberal and corporatist policies, and who are not brainwashed by any attachment to university or the Labour movement.

The second thing to say is – where were Owen Tudor and his buddies when the Lisbon Treaty was being imposed upon us all, nobody, let alone 16/17 year olds, was allowed a say on that.

Democracy’s OK if it works in Mr Tudor’s and his buddies favour, if it doesn’t – change the people.