Comments on: ONS reclassifies housing associations as public bodies https://leftfootforward.org/2015/11/ons-reclassifies-housing-associations-as-public-bodies/ Left Foot Forward is the home for UK progressives. We provide evidence-based analysis on British politics, news and policy. Wed, 04 Nov 2015 11:09:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.5 By: Richard MacKinnon https://leftfootforward.org/2015/11/ons-reclassifies-housing-associations-as-public-bodies/#comment-724457 Wed, 04 Nov 2015 11:09:00 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=108455#comment-724457 In reply to Luke Blakey.

Good try Luke. I am happy to leave it at that.

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By: Luke Blakey https://leftfootforward.org/2015/11/ons-reclassifies-housing-associations-as-public-bodies/#comment-724441 Tue, 03 Nov 2015 14:11:00 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=108455#comment-724441 In reply to Richard MacKinnon.

A Housing association can take the rent it will get in the future for buildings it owns today and use that as collateral to get very cheap loans to build more buildings today, and further increase its stream of rental income in the future, from which it can then borrow more to invest more. A debt today merely indicates they are using loans to ‘time travel’n or smooth future incomes treans to allow spending today where they see fit, rather than a stop start approach of budgeting and saving up for something tommorow like a individual might. the fact an HA has 4,500 units rather than just say 45 (one tower block say), means the value of each tower block and street, and the rent paid by tenants therein, can be shifted around all 4,500 where and when it is most needed/ (or most mismanaged), so for instance allowing a roof to be fixed not when the 25 people below it have paid for it, but whenever the 5000 people collectively can afford it (ie today, rather than months later, with tenants living with a leaking roof, but still paying full rent for squalid conditions)

HAs have also borrowed to improve the buildings they own, double glazing and external wall insulating being expensive but very beneficial examples, they do so, dramatically improving the lives of tenants, who are both warmer and benefit from cheaper energy bills, but at year end only put up the rent by a % or two, despite housing being much nicer places to live, with less chest infections etc. Tenants are more able to pay, and arrears may decrease, but One time rent increases might not justify massive one time improvements, even if fitting double glazing all at once, rather than bit by bit is cheaper overall. Debt is used here to make it possible to ever improve whole buildings/estates all at once.

Finally somewhere in the system subsidy and cross subsidy exists in order to house those on no incomes, those who have been born since a HA stock was built, those with no right to work, and negate the impact of those in rental arrears who in the end never pay. Central government funding new money for new buildings, or for non payments stopped decades ago, allowing future government revenues to be hocked off to money lenders partly filled the gap.

Government funding changes during the year, and loans may have been to top up this difference. Again income smoothing using debt to bring money forward and push losses backward.All in all £60 billion pound is probably eminently affordable and responsible, but it does sound like a huge figure.

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By: Richard MacKinnon https://leftfootforward.org/2015/11/ons-reclassifies-housing-associations-as-public-bodies/#comment-724399 Mon, 02 Nov 2015 11:23:00 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=108455#comment-724399 Debrastorr, Thanks for your information. I am afraid I am more confused than before. If I understand you properly, you are, I think comfortable that a housing association which owns 4,500 rentable properties still needs to borrow money to function then we cannot agree. Even with a figure of 20% of turnover for running costs (private companies manage rented properties for a fee of 10% of the rent collected) our fictitious HA would still have a year end surplus of 15 million on a turnover of 19m.
Is it any wonder George Osborne smells a dripping roast.

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By: debrastorr https://leftfootforward.org/2015/11/ons-reclassifies-housing-associations-as-public-bodies/#comment-724398 Mon, 02 Nov 2015 10:31:00 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=108455#comment-724398 Richard, housing associations borrow to build. They usually get land at a reasonable rate and often some grant – but there is still borrowing. The rent needs to cover this borrowing, maintenance, voids and bad debts, and administration.
Most of the borrowing is from banks and is secured against the properties.

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By: Richard MacKinnon https://leftfootforward.org/2015/11/ons-reclassifies-housing-associations-as-public-bodies/#comment-724395 Mon, 02 Nov 2015 09:22:00 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=108455#comment-724395 Kevin, You seem to know about housing associations so please explain how is it possible that housing associations have run up 60 billion of debt?
For my benefit lets take an fictitious HA with 4,500 units and an average rent of £350/month (probably the average rent is a lot higher). That equates to an income of 19 million per annum. Take staff costs, office expenditure and maintenance of the properties off the turnover of 19million and you are left with, …….., what do consider is a reasonable number Kevin?
How is it possible for a housing association to be in debt?

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