Comments on: GDP is a misguided measure of national prosperity https://leftfootforward.org/2015/06/gdp-is-a-misguided-measure-of-national-prosperity/ Left Foot Forward is the home for UK progressives. We provide evidence-based analysis on British politics, news and policy. Mon, 08 Jun 2015 15:57:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.5 By: GhostofJimMorisson https://leftfootforward.org/2015/06/gdp-is-a-misguided-measure-of-national-prosperity/#comment-714515 Mon, 08 Jun 2015 15:57:00 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=103736#comment-714515 In reply to GhostofJimMorisson.

And, as most studies have concluded, immigration over the last 10-15 years has had, at best, a neutral effect on GDP but has a slightly negative impact on the wages of the lowest paid.

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By: GhostofJimMorisson https://leftfootforward.org/2015/06/gdp-is-a-misguided-measure-of-national-prosperity/#comment-714514 Mon, 08 Jun 2015 15:55:00 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=103736#comment-714514 But a serious public debate about what it is we value as a society would be another benefit of moving away from GDP.

Tell that to Mr Bloodworth and the other immigrationists. They reach for GDP figures to ‘prove’ that MASS immigration has been an unqualified success for this country, and all other arguments to the contrary, such as the effect on community cohesion and shared identity, are irrelevant.

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By: Patrick Nelson https://leftfootforward.org/2015/06/gdp-is-a-misguided-measure-of-national-prosperity/#comment-714440 Sat, 06 Jun 2015 15:13:00 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=103736#comment-714440 “GDP doesn’t tell us how benefits of growth are distributed – who wins within a population and who loses.” nor is everything that is reflected in the GDP good for the country. If drug dealing and prostitution suddenly disappeared from our society, so would around £10 billion pounds from the economy, this would negatively affect the figures, but would actually improve things. It is just one of many examples of how measures like GDP, GNP, growing economy, shrinking economy etc and well being are not closely tied in a simple way, they are different things that should be confused.

The problem is philosophical: we don’t talk about production sufficiency and production being fit for needs, which are the actually important factors, we talk about whether the economy is growing, stable or contracting etc, when actually if we all took up a more agrarian attitude to life, lived more simply, started to practice mend and make do, bought fewer things and practiced barter more than purchase etc it would be absolutely terrible for our economic figures, but there is no evidence that people would be less happy or that their well being would decline (in fact such things as obesity and stress and mental illness due to social isolation would probably rapidly decrease).

Although all the evidence exists to demonstrate these things to us, accepting them within the national discourse would require such a huge paradigm shift that it doesn’t happen (there are of course also many powerful vested interests who have long been determined that it shouldn’t happen). So here we are stuck in the madness of a society that worships GDP and runs along with this madness like a train full of inebriates who think that they are heading towards a space age paradise, but in fact they are heading towards an environmental and social cliff.

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By: stevep https://leftfootforward.org/2015/06/gdp-is-a-misguided-measure-of-national-prosperity/#comment-714297 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 09:17:00 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=103736#comment-714297 We could start the discussion by asking the question:
What is prosperity? If it is defined as material wealth then we need to ask the questions:
Who is prosperous?
How and why did they become Prosperous?
If the answer to these questions are that they inherited their prosperity from land taken from the peoples of this country and given to their forebears centuries earlier, then we must ask if this is fair and just today.
If the answer to these questions are that they earned their material wealth by trading unfairly with, enslaving and or exploiting people for their labour, artificially manipulating currencies, land prices and whole economies, then we must ask if this is fair and just today.
If however, prosperity is defined as having enough for ones needs, living in a fair society, living without fear of hunger, disease or war then we have a lot of work to do.
We must ask these awkward questions so that the answers we receive inform us about real history and by extension, the sort of world we want to create in the future.

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By: damon https://leftfootforward.org/2015/06/gdp-is-a-misguided-measure-of-national-prosperity/#comment-714289 Thu, 04 Jun 2015 08:30:00 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=103736#comment-714289 I agree with this. Inequality has gotten out of hand and we see a real division in many areas of life.
I drive around London for my job and the sight off all these ”luxury flats” going up makes me feel quite alienated as I can’t even afford to buy the tiniest shoe box of a place.
Mass immigration has also contributed to this inequality I think, with areas of high diversity being some of the poorest and most deprived in the country.
Think about it – if we let thousands of those African boat migrants into the country, how well will most of them be fairing in ten years time and what kinds of neighbourhoods will they have moved into?
What will the profile of their children’s school look like?

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