Comments on: It’s no longer good enough to offer voters the illusion of choice https://leftfootforward.org/2015/05/its-no-longer-good-enough-to-offer-voters-the-illusion-of-choice/ Left Foot Forward is the home for UK progressives. We provide evidence-based analysis on British politics, news and policy. Sun, 31 May 2015 06:40:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.5 By: Matt M https://leftfootforward.org/2015/05/its-no-longer-good-enough-to-offer-voters-the-illusion-of-choice/comment-page-2/#comment-713933 Sun, 31 May 2015 06:40:00 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=103238#comment-713933 In reply to Biff Vernon.

Citation needed. Why do you not think the opposite:

Many people did not vote UKIP as they thought it would be a ‘wasted’ vote. Many voted ‘Green’ in a none-of-the-above protest?

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By: Matt M https://leftfootforward.org/2015/05/its-no-longer-good-enough-to-offer-voters-the-illusion-of-choice/comment-page-2/#comment-713931 Sun, 31 May 2015 06:38:00 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=103238#comment-713931 In reply to Dave Stewart.

“Vote for A!”, “No, vote for B!”, “No, vote for C!”
Hooray, A got 30%, B got 40%, C got 30%.

Now A and C are going into coalition. Maybe we’ll give you A, which 30% of you voted for. Or may we’ll give you D a “compromise” which no one voted for. But we have a 60% mandate – note that voting for an individual party doesn’t mean I approve of all possible coalitions containing that party.

Not that FPTP is so great. The point is that, because there’s no such thing as the single preference of a group of individuals, voting always leads to weird outcomes. See Arrow’s Impossibility Theorem. Voting is not generally a good way to make decisions, because they trap everyone with a single outcome.

Under majoritarian rule, 51% of people can vote 49% into slavery.

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By: Dave Stewart https://leftfootforward.org/2015/05/its-no-longer-good-enough-to-offer-voters-the-illusion-of-choice/comment-page-2/#comment-713637 Tue, 26 May 2015 12:29:00 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=103238#comment-713637 In reply to Matt M.

Not all options are mutually exclusive and compromises can often be made which although not ideal of all (or at least a sizeable majority) of voters are at least acceptable. Also no single party would be able to form a government without the support of an actual majority of voters under PR.

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By: Dave Stewart https://leftfootforward.org/2015/05/its-no-longer-good-enough-to-offer-voters-the-illusion-of-choice/comment-page-2/#comment-713636 Tue, 26 May 2015 12:26:00 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=103238#comment-713636 In reply to blarg1987.

I would also be concerned about the election of the second house in this way for exactly the reasons you give but also I feel the second house should have a longer term and should ideally be populated with people who have some form of expertise in order for the second house to continue it’s main function which is (supposedly) non-party political expert scrutiny of legislation from the lower house. How one would achieve this I don’t know but the longer terms I think are vital and perhaps after your 1 long term (say 10 to 15 years) you would not be allowed to re-run thus removing the vote chasing mentality which often distorts political opinion. You could also elect this house in stages of maybe a third of the number every 5 years so as to have a slow churn or “lords” through the house thus maintaining that expert capacity both in terms of specific areas but also on constitutional and parliamentary procedural issues.

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By: Dave Stewart https://leftfootforward.org/2015/05/its-no-longer-good-enough-to-offer-voters-the-illusion-of-choice/comment-page-2/#comment-713635 Tue, 26 May 2015 12:17:00 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=103238#comment-713635 In reply to The Socialist Party.

So what is your solution? Armed reveloution?

With a PR system hard left parties would be able to get into parliament and even into government as a coalition and from there they can change the narrative and focus we currently have and attempt to move us away from capitalism (assuming they have the support for it).

I have no time for people who are not prepared to convince others that their ideas are the best and instead incite their follows to violence whether real or wishfully thought.

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By: David Lindsay https://leftfootforward.org/2015/05/its-no-longer-good-enough-to-offer-voters-the-illusion-of-choice/comment-page-2/#comment-713618 Mon, 25 May 2015 19:51:00 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=103238#comment-713618 In reply to Patrick Nelson.

I often have done.

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By: Patrick Nelson https://leftfootforward.org/2015/05/its-no-longer-good-enough-to-offer-voters-the-illusion-of-choice/comment-page-2/#comment-713617 Mon, 25 May 2015 19:42:00 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=103238#comment-713617 In reply to David Lindsay.

These are interesting suggestions. Why don’t you expand upon them more on your site?

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By: James Alston https://leftfootforward.org/2015/05/its-no-longer-good-enough-to-offer-voters-the-illusion-of-choice/comment-page-2/#comment-713578 Sun, 24 May 2015 16:11:00 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=103238#comment-713578 Hear, hear. Of course these figures are misleading – a different system means that people would vote differently. But it’s still appalling how unrepresentative the current system is.

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By: Mike Robbins https://leftfootforward.org/2015/05/its-no-longer-good-enough-to-offer-voters-the-illusion-of-choice/comment-page-2/#comment-713572 Sun, 24 May 2015 14:45:00 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=103238#comment-713572 Biff is right that these figures are misleading. They’ll do for now – the real point is that they show the absurdity of the system. But in fact voting behaviour would change with reform. So lots more people would have voted Green, but also, many of those who did anyway would probably have given Labour their second preference (as would many SNP voters in Scotland). So the results under a proportional system are very hard to predict.

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By: Biff Vernon https://leftfootforward.org/2015/05/its-no-longer-good-enough-to-offer-voters-the-illusion-of-choice/comment-page-2/#comment-713549 Sun, 24 May 2015 09:09:00 +0000 https://leftfootforward.org/?p=103238#comment-713549 The oft quoted figures in “Under a proportional system, Green voters would have 24 MPs fighting their corner. Those who voted UKIP would have 83 MPs on their side.” are misleading. Many people did not vote Green as they thought it would be a ‘wasted’ vote. Many voted ‘UKIP’ in a none-of-the-above protest. With PR we should expect many more voting Green and fewer voting UKIP.

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