True force is not force? Prison is all about force, all about over powering ones will. No one need be forced to be subject to the will of the other. Rape, Bashings, etc are all prison forces.

What about those who,like myself, were framed? It is argued that long termers, and in particular, Lifers cannot vote in Australia. A lifer in Qld voted as assisted by the National Party who fraudulently registered the prisoners address as being outside prison.Outside or in, the lifer was still a prisoner who voted. The National party rugged voting in this manner and won. This also set the precedent for Australian lifers but is being denied lifers because the pillows and corrections have forgotten it happened.

This is an argument that has been argued by Lord Phillips
(former President of the Supreme Court) and Judge Judge (Lord Chief Justice) in
2011
On the increasingly large role played by the European
court of human rights in UK courts and legislation, Phillips said: “The
role of the judiciary has changed particularly as a result of European law and
the requirement for judges to consider … [whether] parliamentary legislation is
compatible with the human rights convention.”
In the end he suggested Strasbourg “is going to
win” under the Human Rights Act, since the act was designed to comply with
the convention. Judge Judge, however, said it was an “arguable case”
that the UK had to take account of decisions emanating from the court in
Starsbourg but “we are not bound by them”.

I hardly think Swatnan was suggesting they were.

~alec

British judges appointed by British systems overseen by British politicians elected by the British voters have decided that this is legal, so you’re going to need a lot more than “wait, the ECHR says otherwise!” (especially as we’re talking about people who have done truly awful things) to sway me.

~alec

16 years olds are hardly in the same category as criminals.

However, despite my liberal views on the need for the causes to be treated rather than the symptoms, I don’t agree that prisoners should automatically have the right to vote.

Prisoners have broken the social and civic contract under which they live – rehabilitation is key, but voting is a right that must be earned. This ‘nineteenth century view of civic death’ is also a just one.

Voting is an important right taken for granted by too many – prisoners should have to re-earn the right to vote. This could be whilst they are in prison, but the starting presumption needs to be that those who break the social contract do not get to participate in the choices that affect citizens whilst they are incarcerated.

This is a hugely complex issue, the PM’s sound bites are not helpful. But, equally it is wrong to say glib things such as “People are sent to prison to lose their liberty; not their identity” and criticise discussion of what it takes to be a citizen as ‘out of date’.

Part of the liberty that people lose is the right to choose – it is inconsistent for those who have harmed to impact the lives of others until they are deemed fit to participate in society once more.

The need for participation in politics is one of the most pressing challenges our society currently faces, and rehabilitation of offenders is another. Conflating the issues does little service to either cause, and the current ‘debate’ about voting rights is cheap and solves nothing for anyone.