Comments on: Politics is too important to be left to politicians – time for citizens’ juries https://leftfootforward.org/2011/08/politics-is-too-important-to-be-left-to-politicians-time-for-citizenss-juries/ Left Foot Forward is the home for UK progressives. We provide evidence-based analysis on British politics, news and policy. Sun, 07 Aug 2011 19:35:51 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.5 By: Dave Citizen https://leftfootforward.org/2011/08/politics-is-too-important-to-be-left-to-politicians-time-for-citizenss-juries/comment-page-8/#comment-124925 Sun, 07 Aug 2011 19:35:51 +0000 https://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=38314#comment-124925 I like the idea of undermining the democracy distorting effects of powerful vested interests. However, before getting properly started I think a couple of prerequisites need to be addressed so we can have confidence that such panels will not merely serve vested interests by proxy.

There’s the agenda setting practices of powerful media owners for a start. And what about all that comercialisation – billions spent on marketing happy meals + diet pills + teeny padded bras + image anxiety must be doing something (or is the private sector wasteful after all?).

I suggest they also be asked whether fast tracking a rich elite through private schools and the top universities into the most influential jobs is a good thing any more – if we really are going for democracy then we’re going to need to spread the education and influence a bit more widely!!

]]>
By: Mary Wellington https://leftfootforward.org/2011/08/politics-is-too-important-to-be-left-to-politicians-time-for-citizenss-juries/comment-page-8/#comment-124860 Sun, 07 Aug 2011 01:25:54 +0000 https://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=38314#comment-124860 RT @leftfootfwd: Politics too important to be left to politicians: time for citizens' juries: http://bit.ly/qVLvRF writes ERS's @katieghose

]]>
By: Carolyn Deuchar https://leftfootforward.org/2011/08/politics-is-too-important-to-be-left-to-politicians-time-for-citizenss-juries/comment-page-7/#comment-124857 Sun, 07 Aug 2011 00:57:30 +0000 https://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=38314#comment-124857 RT @leftfootfwd: Politics too important to be left to politicians: time for citizens' juries: http://bit.ly/qVLvRF writes ERS's @katieghose

]]>
By: Antony Hodgson https://leftfootforward.org/2011/08/politics-is-too-important-to-be-left-to-politicians-time-for-citizenss-juries/comment-page-7/#comment-124746 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 23:37:07 +0000 https://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=38314#comment-124746 Just to respond briefly to Selohesra’s and Mr. Sensible’s comments – the experiences of those who have worked with citizens’ juries or assemblies has been that such groups are far more thoughtful than ‘the mob’, precisely because they take time to study, think through and deliberate about the issues. I have never heard of a case where such a body has recommended an extreme or simplistic view; rather, they typically produce recommendations that acknowledge the broadest possible range of considerations and interests.

]]>
By: Mr. Sensible https://leftfootforward.org/2011/08/politics-is-too-important-to-be-left-to-politicians-time-for-citizenss-juries/comment-page-7/#comment-124741 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 22:06:24 +0000 https://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=38314#comment-124741 That’s an interesting way of looking at it, Selohesra.

In my view, we are a representative democracy, and I don’t think we want a situation of ‘mob rule.’

]]>
By: Antony Hodgson https://leftfootforward.org/2011/08/politics-is-too-important-to-be-left-to-politicians-time-for-citizenss-juries/comment-page-7/#comment-124740 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 21:59:34 +0000 https://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=38314#comment-124740 As a British Columbian (and currently president of Fair Voting BC – a provincial democratic reform society), I appreciate both this article and the discussion. From my perspective, the BC Citizens’ Assembly got it nearly all right. If I were to identify a failing in the process, I would say that there was no opportunity for the assembly to test the public’s reception of their proposal and refine it further. Assembly members invested a huge amount of effort in understanding the issues, and in my view achieved a much more nuanced perspective than the average member of the public. Many of the concerns raised during the campaign had been fairly thoroughly considered by the assembly members, but raising such concerns (eg, by the opposition) takes far less time than assuaging them. I would have liked to have seen the assembly members spending some time trying to explain their choice to the public, hearing what aspects resonated and which caused concern, and modifying their proposal to address the most significant ones. For example, the whole role of quotas and fractional transfers under STV is actually a very minor issue – one would get essentially the same effect by simply dropping the last place candidate, transferring those ballots to the next listed choice, and repeating until the number of candidates matched the number of seats available. This simple change would have eliminated a great deal of public confusion about what was being proposed.

]]>
By: Ferret Dave https://leftfootforward.org/2011/08/politics-is-too-important-to-be-left-to-politicians-time-for-citizenss-juries/comment-page-7/#comment-124739 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 20:51:01 +0000 https://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=38314#comment-124739 Politics is too important to be left to politicians – time f: http://bit.ly/qVLvRF : writes @electoralreform society's @katieghose

]]>
By: Cycling Edinburgh https://leftfootforward.org/2011/08/politics-is-too-important-to-be-left-to-politicians-time-for-citizenss-juries/comment-page-6/#comment-124737 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 19:26:27 +0000 https://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=38314#comment-124737 RT @leftfootfwd: Politics is too important to be left to politicians – time for citizens' juries http://t.co/bVR4euK

]]>
By: DavidG https://leftfootforward.org/2011/08/politics-is-too-important-to-be-left-to-politicians-time-for-citizenss-juries/comment-page-6/#comment-124726 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 18:34:52 +0000 https://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=38314#comment-124726 The article suggests that the public “will identify problems – and posit solutions – in a completely different way to established elites”, but the public can themselves be an established elite, particularly when addressing the concerns of a minority.

As an example (because that’s the minority I belong to), look at attitudes towards disability in the general public. Even before the tabloid campaign that has now reduced us all to ‘faking scroungers’, the overwhelming public attitude towards disabled people could be summed up in two phrases: ‘Does he take sugar?’ with its implicit demeaning of the intellectual capacity of all disabled people, and ‘I’d rather be dead than in a wheelchair’, which not only continues the demeaning, but suggests that our very lives may not be worth living. Even the assumption that a wheelchair is a negative reveals the degree of disconnect between public and minority, because as anyone with a mobility impairment will tell you, wheelchairs are actually incredibly liberating and empowering. People might claim that these are cliches, that attitudes aren’t that bad, but I’ve faced them on the street, they’re worse. Even the members of the public who think they have a positive view of disability are usually locked into the Personal Tragedy model of disability, which is simply ‘Does he take sugar’ dressed up in a posh frock.

And that’s my minority, no doubt members of other minorities will be able to quote similar examples of the disconnect between the established elite, sorry, the general public, and their own concerns and needs. There may be a role for ‘Citizen’s Juries’ in some cases, but we need to be desperately careful with this because sometimes that jury of your peers turns out not to contain any of your peers at all.

]]>
By: Andrew D Burns https://leftfootforward.org/2011/08/politics-is-too-important-to-be-left-to-politicians-time-for-citizenss-juries/comment-page-6/#comment-124730 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 18:12:46 +0000 https://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=38314#comment-124730 RT @leftfootfwd: Politics is too important to be left to politicians – time for citizens' juries http://t.co/bVR4euK

]]>