Comments on: A progressive majority has surrendered Britain to the conservative minority https://leftfootforward.org/2011/05/alternative-vote-av-referendum-defeat-reaction/ Left Foot Forward is the home for UK progressives. We provide evidence-based analysis on British politics, news and policy. Tue, 10 May 2011 09:57:54 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.5 By: Duncan https://leftfootforward.org/2011/05/alternative-vote-av-referendum-defeat-reaction/comment-page-15/#comment-109183 Tue, 10 May 2011 09:57:54 +0000 https://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=32989#comment-109183 Wow. From this description “Material policies each have a cognitive dimension, often unconscious and implicit. This includes the ideas, frames, values, and modes of thought that inform the political understanding of the material policy” of what cognitive policy is from the cognitivepolicyworks website I have to say if the above is any indicator of your understanding of ‘ideas, frames, values and modes of thought’ at play during the referendum, respectfully I think you should look for another job.

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By: Duncan https://leftfootforward.org/2011/05/alternative-vote-av-referendum-defeat-reaction/comment-page-14/#comment-109181 Tue, 10 May 2011 09:54:54 +0000 https://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=32989#comment-109181 On the basis of what canvassing I did, and it was close down our way, the no vote was considerably boosted by ‘don’t knows’; people who started out the referendum saying they would probably vote ‘yes’ but switched to ‘no’ when the NO2AV campaign stepped up with various falsehoods – ‘it violates one man one vote’ (it doesn’t violate voter parity, which is the important norm) ‘it strengthens the BNP’ (no) ‘it hurts minority parties’ (no relative to the greens) ‘it would be expensive’ (nah, you can handcount it easy enough) ‘it’s complicated’ (if the Irish can understand it) – the volume of negativity meant that those voting anyway – it was a LibDem seat which went SNP, both YES2AV parties – opted for a No vote because they thought there was no smoke without fire and the status quo wasn’t that bad. Epic fail on the YES campaigns part, but I think it’s pretty clear to most of us that Will Straw is wrong; at least here, if the Yes campaign has been more active (and we less focused on our own elections) the ‘don’t know’ vote wouldn’t have been as strong.

Anyone who voted NO2AV to get YES2PR, you’re crazy; it’ll now never happen (not for years, anyway) whereas it could have been part of the next coalition deal one or two general elections from now if we’d adopted AV. The alternative vote is half of the PR-STV system (the STV half); I find it difficult to be unsympathetic towards the general public for their ‘ignorance’ if the so-called advocates of electoral reform are this stupid.

P.S. – Surely if ‘cognitive policy’ was a thing, there would be ‘non-cognitive policy’. Have to say the article reads as being a bit ‘non-cognitive’. Having gone into the referendum assuming it was in the bag you seem to be inclined to blame everyone else for it failing, including to the ludicrous point of asserting there was nothing wrong with the YES campaign, whereas the rest of us are happy enough with the idea that we all failed by not gutting the campaign leadership the second it looked to be going off the rails. Two obvious failings; the ‘this is the progressive vote’ message when a lot of right wingers would prefer AV as well (I remember thinking on election night, having seen him give a clear common sense defense of it, that Nigel Farage would have been a better choice to head the YES2AV campaign) and the ‘make your MP work harder message’ which isn’t a great, practical idea when the largest deliver networks in most constituencies are that of the party of the incumbent and most incumbents think they work pretty hard. Better would have been to stress the clear scope for a corruption in a system where you can guarantee re-election so long as a sizable enough minority will vote for you time and again (see Labour in Glasgow).

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By: Red Ryan https://leftfootforward.org/2011/05/alternative-vote-av-referendum-defeat-reaction/comment-page-14/#comment-109118 Mon, 09 May 2011 22:12:19 +0000 https://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=32989#comment-109118 What seems to be the problem with FPTP? It’s equal and fair in that everyone gets the same number of votes, 1, and each vote is weighted with an equal value. The fact that the person who wins the election doesn’t have an OVERALL majority shouldn’t be a problem – more people voted for him than any other candidate. AV is ‘a miserable little compromise’ after all, and I can understand why progressives and Left-Wingers who are in favour of electoral reform and generally some form of PR voted against it – the idea of Nick Clegg in future governments. I am personally in favour of FPTP, even over a genuinely proportionately representative system – not because i like ‘stability’ or tradition but because even small parties, with real policies and supporters can win seats under it but lunatic, extremist parties who could never realistically expand their base of support cant, but could under PR.

We must keep the fascists out at all costs

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By: Daniel Pitt https://leftfootforward.org/2011/05/alternative-vote-av-referendum-defeat-reaction/comment-page-14/#comment-109007 Mon, 09 May 2011 12:35:19 +0000 https://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=32989#comment-109007 A progressive majority has surrendered Britain to the conservative minority: http://bit.ly/ktYxqY #ConDemNation

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By: masterth https://leftfootforward.org/2011/05/alternative-vote-av-referendum-defeat-reaction/comment-page-14/#comment-108942 Sun, 08 May 2011 23:05:27 +0000 https://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=32989#comment-108942 “But somehow, if not individually but collectively, we have failed – even though we know that we are in the majority, and the Conservatives and Conservative voters are in the minority.”

I you can’t see what is wrong with this sentence the it is no wonder you lost

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By: Ed's Talking Balls https://leftfootforward.org/2011/05/alternative-vote-av-referendum-defeat-reaction/comment-page-14/#comment-108940 Sun, 08 May 2011 22:48:09 +0000 https://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=32989#comment-108940 Mike,

Wasn’t it more than 2:1 against AV?

The ‘progressives’ took one hell of a hiding. No-one was buying AV because the product was so awful and I’m far from convinced that simply trying harder will successfully sell similar terrible ‘progressive’ ideas to the public.

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By: London IWW https://leftfootforward.org/2011/05/alternative-vote-av-referendum-defeat-reaction/comment-page-13/#comment-108906 Sun, 08 May 2011 14:00:04 +0000 https://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=32989#comment-108906 "A progressive majority has surrendered Britain to the conservative minority" | http://ow.ly/4PFWW | #UKpolitics #ConDem #Elections

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By: Mike Thomas https://leftfootforward.org/2011/05/alternative-vote-av-referendum-defeat-reaction/comment-page-13/#comment-108890 Sun, 08 May 2011 10:23:33 +0000 https://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=32989#comment-108890 It was almost 2 votes to 1 in favour of NO to AV.

And the Tories hold more council seats than all the other parties COMBINED.

Your ‘progressive’ argument were rubbish and put forward with no conviction whatsoever.

Must try harder because no-one is buying it.

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By: Galahad https://leftfootforward.org/2011/05/alternative-vote-av-referendum-defeat-reaction/comment-page-13/#comment-108887 Sun, 08 May 2011 09:52:13 +0000 https://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=32989#comment-108887 @11 I have to agree with Will – the people were asked and have expressed their opinion – it will be disappointing for those who wanted a yes but surely this is what democracy is about.

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By: Stephen W https://leftfootforward.org/2011/05/alternative-vote-av-referendum-defeat-reaction/comment-page-13/#comment-108883 Sun, 08 May 2011 09:36:54 +0000 https://www.leftfootforward.org/?p=32989#comment-108883 Mr Wootton,
I don’t know if you were paying any attention a few days ago but Labour voters voted solidly against AV. Even 25% of Lib Dem voters voted against AV. And nobody cares how Green voters voted because there are so few of them.

Well done to Will Straw for saying it like it is. The simple fact is that the No vote was so massive that no single piece of NO campaign dishonesty, no relative lack of funding, no single cause could possibly explain it. AV was just utterly rejected by the People.

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